SPEAKER_01 0:00

Thanks for joining us today on Hanescast. JB Hickson is with us. Joan Haynes. JB is from Colorado, Not By Works Ministries. And so we'll just start out. JB, tell us just a brief uh briefly about Not By Works Ministries.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Yeah, you bet. Such a pleasure to meet you guys. I've enjoyed kind of hanging out today and glad to get to talk a little bit more on the podcast. So NBW stands for Not by Works Ministries, based on Titus 3.5, Not by Works of Righteousness, which we've done, but according to his mercy, he saved us. It's been a passion of mine for almost my entire ministry career, over 40 years now, through a series of providential encounters. The Lord kind of got me looking into the clarity and accuracy of the gospel, and it kind of became a passion of mine. And so we've devoted our ministry and our life to the clarity, accuracy, and urgency of the gospel. We started in 1999 while I was teaching full-time at a Bible college and then eventually incorporated in 2013 and kind of become our full-time thing now. And my wife Wendy is a key part of the ministry. We have six awesome children, ages 18 to 32, and a couple of our adult children work with the ministry as well. And travel, write, speak, and do podcasts with great guys like you.

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Yeah, and JB was able to join us today. We were at the Pritchard Laughlin, and JB brought some end times. He went some so went through some salvation and soteriology, and then he he dove right into just how that correlates with the end times and the urgency for the hour, just because we know the scriptures. I guess I believe if you know where this the scriptures say we are going and we have a starting point and an ending point, then the the filling in the middle, I guess, is through faith, through the word of God, and just I guess trying to figure it out, I guess, but what's going on, like you said had said, and I stole it's never really what it's how do you say it? It's it's never about what it's about. It's never about what it's about. And so, like if you're watching and you're thinking, you know, this candidate or the left, right, the Republican, Democrat, Trump, Biden, whoever it is, that that is where the enemy wants us to keep our focus. It's kind of like that hidden hand of uh Freemasonry. Yeah, Freemasonry, which which is kind of ironic that hidden in plain sight falci. I seen he came in recently before his fake hearings, and uh, in my opinion, and he just has his hand like this in his suit jacket. So yeah, it's never it's never what it's always about, like on the surface. And so I I like the way you helped us in unpacking that with your new your new book, Faded. Fade to black, yeah. Fade to black. Yep.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Yeah, tell us about that just we. Yeah, so fade to black just came out in June of this year, 2026, and it's exposing the rise of global tyranny. We know if if you follow the Bible, and even if you're not a Christian, you don't follow the Bible, if you follow history, you know that uh there's some bad guys out there that want to take over the world. And they call themselves the Luciferians, uh, the Luciferian elite, and they're conspiring with Satan and uh evil fallen angels and other human co-conspirators to try to dominate the world. And it's it's variously referred to, depending on who you're reading, as sort of the shadow government or the deep state or the global elites or that type of thing. But it's all ultimately ties back to the cosmic battle between uh God and Satan. And uh so in Fade to Black, I kind of take a look at the ways in the last two to three years, it really zeros in on just the last, say, everything from 2023 to now that has happened to really set the stage for the coming beast system. And it's a subject that's of great interest to me. It's something I've studied for years. I'm fascinated by what the enemy is doing to prepare for this final battle. Because we know the Bible, we know who wins in the end, we know God's plan. That's clear enough. It's kind of cool to see these uh losers who haven't yet come to grips with the fact that they're already defeated. Uh, greater is he who is in us than he was in the world, and yet they're fighting hard, striving hard to usher in the new world order. So fascinating subject, relevant subject, and uh, folks can find out more at fade to blackbook.com, fade to blackbook.com. Jonah, have you read that yet?

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Or yeah, I listened to it. I listened to it on my Kindle version, and then I figured. What's your thoughts? I thought it was good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:45

Um was the tape, some of the takeaways.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

Um I can't remember exactly. I I got a lot of thought, other thoughts in my head that I was gonna ask about. Well, go ahead. Yeah. Yeah. I was gonna ask about um, I was thinking about hearing a lot about technocracy or technocrats. And for people that aren't aware, like how would you define what is technocracy? What is what how is someone a technocrat? Because I think like most people on the street that you talk to, if you just say like so-and-so is a technocrat, they might not like have any idea what you're talking about. Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:17

Most don't. Yeah, it's a technical term. It goes back to the 1930s and the rise of a technocracy movement. The idea, it was an ideology back then that that really, really smart people should be in charge and if using their technological uh expertise and knowledge, they could they could kind of rise to the top and and and rule rule the world. And it was it was less nefarious than it sounds when it first started, even though I believe it was ultimately a tool of the devil from the beginning. But a lot of people were caught up in that movement, just thinking that, yeah, you know, the masses, there's a certain average intelligence, and we all look up to these superstars that are brilliant in their fields of engineering or chemistry or science or whatever. And so we're gonna put the fate of the world in their hands and let them kind of rule things for us. But ultimately, uh, the simplest definition of technocracy means rule by technology, using technology to control the masses, to control the world. And so the technocracy movement's got a lot of press in recent years because some leading technocrats like Elon Musk, whose grandfather started the Canadian branch of the North American Technate, have really become very influential inside Washington, D.C., inside American government. Larry Ellison, Sam Altman, Peter Teal, a lot of technocrats are Nick Land. Yeah, yep, yep. Dark Enlightenment. Totally, yeah. Curtis Jarvin, uh, the whole dark enlightened concept. Yep. Harari is definitely a spokesman for the technocracy. I, you know, to me, he's an interesting guy. I I talk about him in my book on technocracy.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

He is a wolf and wolf. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

He doesn't even try to hide his evil intentions. He's a wolf in wolf's clothing and makes no bones about it. But he's also kind of a spokesman for the World Economic Forum and you know, just the New World Order. I mean, obviously, I think the guy has some level of intelligence, humanly speaking, and a lot of people think he's brilliant. He is a writer, but he's, you know, he's he's Jewish, he's a homosexual, he's uh just a leading global elite personality, and he's he's revered by mainstream media and academia. But I have a whole chapter on him in my book called Uh Spirit of the False Prophet, where I kind of detail some of the things that he said. But so back to technocracy, they want to use technology to rule the world, which fits with what the Bible says. The Bible says the Antichrist and false prophet are going to preside over a full-spectrum planetary control grid. Well, the only way they're gonna be able to do that is with artificial help. They don't have omniscience and omnipresence and omnipotence the way God does. So they have to create it using some type of technology. And that's where AI and satellite technology and data centers and all of that uh have made this very possible for them.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah, I think I believe that I've been like studying through the uh the scarlet, the whore. Oh, yeah, what the well, of course, the Bible calls her the of course the heading that I'm looking at, the scarlet woman and the scarlet beast. But the the whore riding the beast, I feel like that it weighs into that. Well, it's the commercial corruption, and it also ties into the influence that this beast rising up, that these seven heads are seated on, and then she is seated on the seven heads. And I had a I had a question because I've been studying this a long time, but I'm not saying I'm right. But I it seems to be the seven heads have to do with seven like mountains and powers or spirit. To me, it's more like a oh, like you mentioned the seven uh the seven mountain mandate. Well, this you had seven elements of the antichrist, yeah, yeah, yeah. But also Alice Bailey from Lucy's Luce's Trust. That was how God like showed me all that like early on, Alice Bailey. I had no clue. Yeah, and I just threw like looking some research, I just stumbled on Luce's trust. Nobody ever showed me Luce's trust. So it was I just feel like okay, God's starting to show me. And this was like 20, probably 2019. So it was right around that, the all the whole COVID scare and all that. And but I just feel like there's a a sense of they have some. I think she has a book, it's like the seven rays of sunlight, or so we could see it's a dark enlightenment, it's uh it's it's technocracy. Is there's a knowledge there. Um what am I trying to say? There's a knowledge there that's coming from fallen angel technology, it's coming from God ultimately, like not the deceit part, but they have to have some all this knowledge they've they've been given as angels before they fell, but they're using it a twist. It's as below, so above, and yeah, that Masonic twist that we talked about briefly. I don't know, you want to weigh into that because I I know I rambled there a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 10:42

No, Satan's always called good evil and evil good. He takes everything God intended for good, twist it 180 degrees. The Luciferians who follow and worship Satan, they believe in the Garden of Eden that God was the antagonist and Lucifer is the hero. They worship him. They think God's the bad guy, and God came in and was lying to Adam and Eve. And if they would just do what Satan said, they could be enlightened and so forth. But going back to Alice Bailey, so she was a disciple of Helena Blavatsky, who started the theosophy movement, and very demonic, very uh new agey, definitely getting their material from the dark side. Alice Bailey, in her own writings, she wrote about 10,000 pages. She claims to have channeled a demon called Master DK. That's what they what she called kind of shorthand, I forget the full name, but Master DK. And what's interesting in her writings, and then she wrote in the 1930s, and yeah, she and her husband started what was originally called the Lucifer Publishing Company. And when that name became a little bit out of favor, they changed it to Lucius Trust, but it's it's really the Lucifer Publishing Company. And that's the thing. These people, they they're they're not all interconnected formally and officially, but ideologically they are, and they think Lucifer is their God and they worship him and they're doing his bidding. And and and 15 times in those 10,000 pages that she got channeled from a demon, Alice Bailey, again, this was in the 30s and 40s, mentioned a key date of 2025. And, you know, 2020s are a critical decade for the advancement of the satanic new world order. Think how they began with the control of iris pandemic, as I call it. And then what's happened since then, the rollout of AI and the technocracy, you know, resurgence, and and then, you know, the whole the just so many things coming down the pike midway through this decade. You got Agenda 2030, you got so many different groups and world governments and World Government Summit and World Economic Forum and World Bank, all kind of aligning behind a set of goals under the guise of climate change. It seems like they know something we don't. They're headed for for something. But yeah, Alice Bailey is a key name to know in the in this you know Luciferian agenda for sure.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

How and then you go, Joan, after this, but how I've been was looking at the uh the mountains there because they said the seven heads are the seven mountains. Would could the mountains have anything to do with like what David said, I know where my help comes from, it comes from the hills.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

The hills, yeah. The maker of the hills.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Yeah, and also Jerusalem and Mount Zion and I mean is there any correlation to the you know the the horror of the Babylonian seven being the fullness of every spiritual entity minus the one true way?

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Yeah, so a lot of Bible commentators have spilt a lot of ink trying to suggest different meanings of the seven hills there in Revelation. I think the best we can say is that if you understand the ancient Near East, all of their false gods, the Greek gods, the Roman gods, the Babylonian gods, they all, you know, thought the higher you were, the closer you were to the gods. And so they would talk about the the help coming from the hills as sort of a menonym for the stars and the celestial realm and the beings. And so David comes along. I think it's uh was it Psalm 127 or 121, one of those ascent psalms in there, and he talks about from whence cometh my help? Does my help come from the hills? No, no, my help comes from the maker of the hills. There's higher than all of those hills. And obviously, God is the Almighty Creator of the universe who spoke the world into existence. So I think going back to Revelation, I think it's hard it's difficult to identify specifically what the reference is there beyond just a general reference to power, you know, authority, comfort, safety. They they view the hills as you know a source of safety, but ultimately it's not going to get them anywhere. God's going to bring it all crashing down. I have a chapter in the new book, Faye the Black, called The Mother of All Harlots. And since you brought that up from Revelation 17, it's interesting. I I make the connection in the book too. If you guys remember, you're too young to remember, but back in '93, in the first Gulf War, when uh the U.S. went into Iraq, setting aside for now the fact that the whole thing was a false flag that we never should have even been in there, the whole incubator babies thing and the false testimony before Congress. Setting all that aside, when the war started, of course, it was shock and awe, and we went in and within 24 hours it was, you know, Iraqi soldiers were laying down their weapons. But it was right at that beginning that Saddam Hussein goes on air and he's just blabbering on about how he's gonna destroy America, and this is the mother of all wars. And it was laughable because he was, you know, defeated within hours. And I think that's kind of the same thing we see in Revelation 17. Babylon, the mother of all harlots, is gonna come crashing down. And it's it's the epitome of the beast system, all centered around Babylon, all going all the way back to Babel and Nimrod and the enemies of all that is good and the enemies of God. And here in this climactic uh apex, it's gonna come crashing down at the Battle of Armageddon, and it's just the mother of all harlots. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna ask a couple questions about maybe the 2030 agenda. Is that when they say you'll own nothing and you'll be happy? Is that the do you really think you know if we're still here and that by 2030, you really think we'll own nothing? And then also I just wanted to maybe touch upon earlier, I think during the message you would touch upon uh Christian nationalism and uh TP USA. Like what's uh the problem with uh being a Christian, Christian nationalism, what's wrong with wanting Christians ruling early? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Yeah, well, so uh as I talked about in one of my previous books, I like horses and I like sandwiches, but I don't like horse sandwiches, right? So I'm a Christian and I'm a nationalist. I love my country, I love my Lord, but I'm not a Christian nationalist because what that does is it blurs the distinction between two of God's divine institutions. There's the institute of civil government that God ordained all the way back in Genesis, and there's the institute of the church, which God ordained in Acts chapter 2. And it's when you merge them together, you are getting out of your lane. The church has a specific job to do. We're to fulfill the Great Commission, we're to be salt and light, we're to, you know, be Christ's namesake as Christians and so forth. Government is there for one reason to bless good and punish evil. That's it. It's never been the government's job to feed the poor, feed the hungry, all of the sort of New Deal things that came out of World War II, none of that. You know, if that's the church's job. And so my problem with Christian nationalism, besides the obvious theological and doctrinal problems, according to which they say the church's role is to take over the government, force Christianity upon the world, and when we get this world cleaned up according to the moral code, they call it theonomic ethics and dominion theology, where the church is supposed to dominate the world. You never see that in scripture. We're not supposed to dominate the world, we're supposed to win the world of Christ. But when we get it all cleaned up, then Christ will come back. So, you know, Christian nationalism and the new apostolic reformation, NAR, you know, they believe that they have certain prophets that are getting their marching orders directly from God today, and he's told them that they're to take over the government, and you know, Christians are supposed to, you know, only vote for certain candidates that are, you know, that are part of this NAR movement. But that that whole concept just flies in the face of the plain uh teaching of Scripture. It's it's we're not here to dominate the world, we're here to win the world. The world's not going to get cleaned up until Christ comes back. That's clear enough. It's gonna get worse and worse. 2 Timothy 3.13 says it's gonna get worse and worse. It doesn't mean there aren't pockets of revival and places around this globe where the Spirit of God is moving mightily and praise God for that. But the notion that our task as Christians is to dominate the world and only elect Christians so that Christians rule the world, that's foreign to scripture.

SPEAKER_01 19:45

Uh yeah, because that weak like Satan weakens the nations, he's the one who's weakens the nations, and also he's he leads astray, obviously, as an angel of light, and his ministers are like ministers of righteousness. So we talk about turning point USA and other, I mean, the church, I mean, not paying attention to sound doctrine, Paul said to Timothy. But I just feel like he's lassoing the church with distractions, and it's taking away from the true power, which is the word of God, with through the gospel, through the gospel message, but also learning how to overcome in your life. I mean, so I just feel like a lot of times, like you mentioned, some feel like they have to have a program for giving away food or things like these things are good, but you can't replace where the power's at.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

No. Yeah, the the the whole NAR movement starts with bad theology and then it gets worse from there. It's really an example, I believe, of the Luciferian elite, even though many NAR advocates may not even realize this. I'm certain they don't. But uh behind the scenes and the shadowy, you know, recesses of the Luciferian conspiracy, they have co-opted American evangelicalism, conservative American evangelicalism, by you know, taking over essentially the evangelical right wing. And so, you know, they're getting they're getting their teaching from people like uh Trump's uh pastor, Paula White. Paula White, almost at Vanna White. Frankly, I think Vanna White would be better than Paula White. But anyway, I don't know. But uh, you know, who do who don't know the first thing about Bible doctrine. I'm not trying to be ugly, they just don't listen to what they say and compare it to scripture. They may be nice people. I've never met her, she may be a wonderful person, but doctrinally, she is far afield from the plain normal teaching uh of Scripture. So, yeah, to me, it's part of a broader agenda. So, and I mentioned this at our service earlier today. We know from their own writings and as well from biblical prophecy that the United States is not. Does not play a role in the entente. We have to be taken out of the way. We know this as well from the Luciferian writings, which tell us that the ever since the year about 1900, they've started intentionally trying to destroy this country. Because let's face it, for all of its warts and flaws today, America has done more to advance the gospel, has done more to proclaim the Word of God than any nation in history. And we are standing in the way of the New World Order. So they've got to get America brought to its knees in order for us to sign on willingly to a New World Order, one world system. Well, they're not going to be able to do that as long as there are still patriotic, Bible-believing, God-fearing, and I might have gun-toting Christians out there. And so, well, the best way to do it is to bring us down from within, to infiltrate, marginalize the church, get us buying into politics first and the Bible second, if at all. And first thing you know, you know, we're going to be careful what you wish for. I mean, Curtis Jarvin, Peter Teal, J.D. Vance, which are known among the technocrats as the neoreactionary dream team, that's what they call them. What are they out there touting? Curtis Yarvin's been all over the speaking circuit, all over major news. He was on Tucker Carlson. He's been on with Charlie Kirk before his death. What's he saying? He's saying we need to abolish the Constitution, do away with the Constitution that, you know, men and women have given their lives for to defend, if you're out 250 years in history, abolish the Constitution, install a monarch, and take over the government. That's what they want to do. A sitting vice president has aligned himself with that ideology. That's that's unheard of. So it's all wrapped up in the same agenda.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

Yeah, I believe, and I said this from day one. I took I told Rader, I told not that I just because I told somebody that that makes it right, but I'm just gonna go there with it. But I just feel like like Charlie Kirk was part of their psyops, whether he knew it or not, and whether he's really was shot or not. Initially I was like, oh, you probably a drone shot, or but I I'm not sure, but I just feel like it was part of what they wanted for their agenda. And I just feel like because JD Vance was quick, not only Erica Kirk was, but JD Vance was sitting at the helm of turning point ministries, like I don't know, within a month, within four or five, three or four weeks. I'm like, okay, how do you have the sitting vice president taking over this turning point USA? And uh I also I also believe that uh the Trump assassination was staged. It seems like I know a lot of conspiracies are saying it was now, but sometimes I'm like, okay, now they're saying it, I believe it was, and I believe it still is. But what's your take on that? And then Joan, I wanted your take on that as well.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah, so you're talking about the for the Trump one, the one over PA. Yeah, yeah. So let's talk about Charlie Kirk, first of all. So to me, the the issue of whether he was shot or not is is in and of itself, it's a distraction. So remember, with every major event, especially in U.S. events, there's always three positions. There's the official story, which is always a lie. There's the official conspiracy theory, which is also a lie. It's the one that they put out there to discredit truth seekers, and then there's the truth, right? So sadly, while people are over here fighting over conspiracy theories, which one is true, they're missing, you know, missing the truth of the matter. So as far as his assassination, there is a lot of fishy stuff related to that that I can't figure out. That it's very suspicious. It just doesn't add. I've grown up hunting. I hunt with a 30-od six all my life. I know what a wound from a 30-odd six looks like. It doesn't look like that. And I'm not an expert, but I like you have looked into this, seen a lot of experts that have weighed in and said that just the facts don't fit the story. And there are a lot of other strange things that occurred right there on the stage, right after his death. I mean, so I don't know, but to me, that's almost beside the point. What I've been keeping an eye on is what's happened since then. Yeah. And and and, you know, they love the the old adage that's part of the Hegelian dialectic, never let a crisis go to waste. Sometimes they manufacture the crisis, which might be the case here. Sometimes they just take advantage of an organic crisis. But either way, what we saw happen right after it was this flocking of churches to TPUSA, which thankfully I had eight months before his assassination, I had written about my critique of TPUSA and Charlie Kirk in my book, The Great Last Days Apostasy, because when you just look at what they say and what they teach, there's no way you can claim this is a Christian organization. Whatever good it might be doing, it is not an Orthodox, evangelical, born-again Christian organization. There are Mormons that are in charge of certain sectors of it. They have Muslims speak, they have Mormons speak.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

As Valet, or he was, I can't remember his name, but he was from the temple of set. Oh, yeah, no question.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

Yeah, yeah. At the seven-hour uh political rally, I call it, they claimed it was a memorial spirit, it was more like a political rally. Yeah, they're just so ecumenical, and I don't know how you can claim it to be uh Christian. So, you know, I feel like w regardless of what really happened or didn't happen or who was behind it, all of that doesn't matter. What's happening now is clearly to the advantage of the neoreactionary movement, the new apostolic reformation movement within Christianity. As far as Trump, yeah, you know, look, again, uh the guy had there have been several attempts on his life. You know, I I don't know what to believe. Just like the Charlie Kirk thing, there were a lot of fishy things related to that one in Pennsylvania, Butler, Pennsylvania.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Yeah, Ronnie Jackson was his the doctor on the scene that morning. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They didn't go to the uh no reports from the ER. It's just like Ronnie Jackson banned his disease.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

And I'd have liked to have Ronnie, you know, mend some of my wounds because suddenly you go away with scars. Yeah. I got a few scars I'd like for him to fix. But no, I, you know, again, to me, a lot of suspicious stuff about that just doesn't add the facts, don't fit the narrative. But that's somewhat beside the point because you can you can get in debates about that, and you know, people on different sides are going to get offended. You know, it's kind of like when you used to talk about 9-11 and stuff. You know, the fact is, what's happened since then? And they've turned him into a martyr. I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he was losing support. I mean, I mean, I know presidents make mistakes, but when you push and continue to push a death shot that's killed billions of people and are proud of it and brag about it, even while your own supporters are booing you, that tells me you know you've got a problem. And so they needed some things to prop him up. And it seems to me, again, I'm not I'm not an expert, I'm not an assassin by any means. I'm not, I don't necessarily have any expertise behind this statement. But it seems like if you wanted to kill somebody, you could, you could figure out how to do it without all these near misses. So you just it just begs the question. And I hope to God that he's not assassinated. That would be terrible for our country. That would hurl us into all kinds of unrest and craziness. But that is, I think, one of the possibilities as they move forward to the poly crisis that's going to bring America down. If they were to have something like that happen, a high-profile politician be assassinated, who knows what that could be.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah, then it would have to be like, okay, was he really or was he not? Isn't it crazy how you just don't know what's real anymore? I know. Jonah, okay, you're 25, so how do you weigh this into your thinking? Because you know, we dive into this and we have for a long time, but I mean you have some, but how what's your take on some of these things?

SPEAKER_00 30:27

I was just gonna say we know we know Trump's a Christian because of all the stuff he's done helping Ukraine, right? You made a podcast about that. And I I just wanted to ask about that. That's funny. Yeah, some comments he made. Because people some people were like, I might just hear people like, well, yeah, Trump's a Christian, we gotta support for JD Vance, but it's like, you know, you know them by their fruit of their mouth, what they believe. And what Trump said he believes is that if he does XYZ in the war, then he might have a shot. Maybe he'll get in. Yeah, maybe he'll get in.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

And J.D. Vance you know said Christianity is a club that you join, and he hopes his wife will join the club or something like that. I mean, they don't know what it means to know Jesus as your personal savior. Is that his wife? Is it for real? Is it a white? Who knows? You know, J.D. Vance is another anomaly because if you look at the history, he came out of nowhere. Research on that. Yeah, totally came out of nowhere, financed by Teal to become senator. And then even when he when Trump picked him the second time around to be his running mate, even you know, secular conservative politicians and pundits were like, JD Vance, that's the worst possible pick you could ever, you know, pick, you know? So it's just it's crazy. But, you know, and then he's financed by Peter, he's discipled by Curtis Sharwin. So, again, a guy who wants to change the constitution.

SPEAKER_01 31:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

He changed his name three times. Oh, I didn't catch that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, but back to Ukraine. Yeah, Trump said if he was elected again, this for his third, you know, because he he's running three times, second time he lost to Biden, supposedly. I think that was a stolen election, but I think they're all stolen. I think Hillary won the first election. They wanted Trump in there to roll out the pandemic. But, you know, he said if he was elected when he ran against Kamala, that between the election and the inauguration, he would end the Ukraine war. Well, here we are, two years into his term, and we're still fighting the war. So, but you know, Trump's one of those guys, kind of like Clinton used to be, that the Teflon president they call him. He can say anything he wants, and if he doesn't do it, then they his his supporters just say, Oh, he's just trolling you. He just loves to troll you. That's just Trump being Trump. You know, so you can't win with him. He he's like, he can literally say and do anything he wants, and he's never held accountable for, you know?

SPEAKER_00 32:55

Yeah, and you I think one of your books you have a list of all the kind of the prideful quotes that he's had. And like so many Christians are so quick to support him. But like in the Bible, it's like the list of things that the Lord hates, the top of the list is haughty eyes, proud look. So it's why do we overlook the pride aspect? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 33:16

Yeah, I mean, to me, it's a big deal. And I I talk about that in this new book, Fade to Black. I have a section on the spirit of pride. And again, say what you want about Trump. I'm not, you know, you know, pro or anti-Trump. I'm just saying, just looking at it objectively, the way he conducts himself in our culture today is vastly different than the statesmanlike decorum of presidents in the past. I mean, no president would say the things uh that he says. I mean, even Obama, as bad as he was in, you know, moral issues and the woke agenda and so many things, he he was more statesmanlike, at least when he's on camera and when he's his public appearance. Trump's just out there. He looks like a teenager half the time with the stuff he's tweeting out there. And, you know, you could say that's just part of our culture, and certainly that's that is a reality. Our culture has changed. But that's and it is a sign of the times because the pro most prideful man ever is going to be the Antichrist who's speaking blasphemous words and claiming himself to be God. So I think the more they can make that type of behavior acceptable, you know, the the more prepared we are for that day to come.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, and I think I believe that what we try to do is let people know that we're not we're not choosing any sides for any candidate. We're trying to make people aware that these are all distractions. And it's and it's to it's what the enemy's using. And if we don't know what the enemy's up to, then the enemy can, yeah, he can just slide his way through, like, you know, the hidden hand, or look over here, and while he's doing a backdoor deal. And so we're just we want to point out that it's not about left, right, Republican, Democrat, it's about truth and knowing that they are part of a an agenda, whether they know it or not, that they are falling after the lust of this world and for power and money, and they're they could be caught up in the whirlwind of it, or they could be maybe they went to you know the AI, the computer, and they're asking it questions and it's giving them answers, and we know that that that happens. Oh, yeah. The Shaw for Iran in an interview, I think it was with 60 minutes years ago. He's like, We asked the computer. Did you see that one?

SPEAKER_02 35:40

No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

Yeah, he's like, We asked, I was like 19. That was at Riva Pahlavi who they want to put him in for the in Iran during the regime change if that happens. And I believe they're just waiting on algorithms and things like that. But uh, it was his father, I believe, that said that. That just but he just asked the computer, yeah. And so I feel like they get this palantir, let's ask all the all the seeing stone, or you know, and it is, it's coming from the antichrist system.

SPEAKER_02 36:11

That's it, it's coming from the beast system. The spirit of the Antichrist is already at work in the world, 1 John 4, 3. And you know, it's important for I think, and one of the reasons I wrote the book is it's important for Christians to be aware of all this stuff, you know. We don't know when the rapture is going to happen. Things could get a lot worse before that happens. And, you know, we don't want to be you know naive. We don't want to be sitting ducked, sticking our head in the sand, acting like everything's, you know, great. We need to be prepared. Proverbs 22, 3 says the wise person sees trouble coming and prepares for it. And so, yeah, that's what we try to do in the book is just to expose the way, just in the last three years, so many pieces of the puzzle are coming together, uh, paving the way for the beast system. And we better be ready because if the Lord tarries, you know, we're gonna be very possibly finding ourselves engaged in a one-world system already. I mean, the one world system does not have to begin with the Antichrist. The Antichrist could step into a fully developed one world system already.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, and the alignment there in the Middle East, I think a lot of times people, you know, I think you mentioned this, like a lot of times in the scripture, well, in the scriptures, the central focus is Jerusalem, Israel, you know, Iran, Persia, Babylon, Egypt, and those regions, but like we view it a lot of times, at least I have in the past, like the United States, it's it's it's easy to do that. And I know Jonah, you mentioned about the 2030 agenda, owning nothing and being happy if we're still here. So I mean, you see that there's a lot of kids, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

I think a lot of kids they don't care. I guess they're not interested. But I I think that scares them, or they're just like, we'll figure it out. But I like what you've been saying, JB, about uh nothing is to be feared, disunderstood. And I think yeah, too many people, kids my age are asleep or and then the kids that do care they get caught up in the left-right carrot on, so it's hard, I think.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

I I think that's one of the main uh goals of the the planned epidemic, you know, the control of virus candemic, I think was to destroy a whole generation of young people. We have six kids, three of them graduated post or during COVID. And it rocked their world. I mean, it absolutely changed their world. Uh their experience in college was different than ours. And and it's just, you know, there have been all kinds of studies already that showed that the isolation of young kids going all the way back to you know grade school children during that time just had an enormously detrimental effect on on their psyche, uh, on the way they think, on the way they view the world. I mean, they already had captured them through social media and smartphones and all of these uh things, but that was a biggie. It just it disrupted everything. And, you know, now we're having, you know, my son Morgan is the same age as you, my son Landry is 23. I have a daughter uh who's 22. Am I getting their ages right? 21? Yeah. Uh and uh and and then one who's 18. And you know, they're here they are, you know, adults now, three of those four that I just mentioned out of college, struggling to find jobs, struggling to, you know, they don't have the same types of hopes and dreams that I had when I graduated from college. I felt like I could do anything. I really did. I felt like, hey, this is this is gonna be great. I can, you know, uh I can do anything, you know, I set my mind to. But now that it's like there's a a screen or a film and something up in front of them in the future, and they're just they they don't have that vision. And that's that's tragic, you know.

SPEAKER_01 40:07

How about the uh between the the 2030 agenda and things like that? How and then we could kind of wrap it up with this, but I feel like Israel, a lot of people don't realize that the usurper that's what he's done. Satan has done that from the garden. He's usurped the authority, or at least tried to, you know, with God's word, twist it. And I feel like we've we've known that with Israel, they've always not always, but we had, you know, King David was, of course, uh a man after God's own heart, but Israel's always been usurped. I know Ezekiel points that out when he had Ezekiel dig into the wall. He's like, look in there. The women are worshiping Tamus, the men are like facing the east, they're worshiping the stars and the moon. So I feel like a lot of times people are like, Well, that's Israel's not the same Israel, but they don't understand it's this it's the same Israel, and God will break off whatever branch he wants and he'll do what he wants. But people don't realize that these are God's people, he has a plan for them. And again, Zechariah points that out. A third will cry out for him, and we know that there's the burdensome stone there in Jerusalem. I don't understand that completely, whether it's like they can't move it, and if they go to move it, he's gonna God'll deal with them, but that's where his name is at. And so if you want to just weigh into that briefly before we let out.

SPEAKER_02 41:44

I mean, as I said this morning, you know, Christ is not coming back to New York City or Washington, D.C. He's coming back to Jerusalem. And, you know, the Bible couldn't be more clear about that, that Israel plays a central role in the culmination of God's plan of the ages. It began in Genesis with God's unconditional promise to Abraham, the father of the Jewish people, and it will culminate with Christ himself, the Messiah, the ultimate seed of Abraham, as Paul tells us, taking the throne and ruling with a rod of iron and perfect peace and righteousness and justice in Ezekiel's temple in Jerusalem. So you cannot turn the church into spiritual Israel because then you have to have a spiritual temple, which they do. Everything's metaphorical. Ezekiel's you know, temple in 40 to chapter 40 to 48 is one big giant metaphor. And, you know, to them, Israel has no future. Well, that's not what God's word says. So one of the most important sections of my new book distinguishes between political Zionism and biblical Zionism. And Christians are being sucked into this false dichotomy where you either have to, you know, blindly support everything modern Israel does, or you're an anti-Semite, or you hate everything Israel does, and the church has replaced Israel, there's no future for Israel, or you're a wacko, you know, dispensationalist. And that's that's exactly where they want. They want to frame the argument, and we need to get back to the Bible, as you were saying, and see what God's word says about the unconditional promises to Israel. That God has a future for national Israel. Does that mean that everything modern Israel does is good or right? No, not everything America does is good or right, right? We can criticize our country and still be patriotic, and we can criticize Israel and still be pro-Zionist. It depends on your view of God's plan of the ages. And so, you know, I feel like at this point, people uh aren't able to nuance that the way they should. We believe in a future for Israel because of God's promise. We we trust the promises of God. Do I trust Bibi, Netanyahu? Not any more than I would trust Ahab or Jezebel or Herod in the first century. Uh he's a second. Leader. But do I trust God? Absolutely. I trust God's promises. He's a covenant-keeping God, and we're going to see Israel return. It's kind of like if you have a prodigal child, you know, and so many parents of our age, you know, are in that boat. And like one of the most common questions I get at conferences is, you know, I'm praying for my son or my daughter. They're 20-something, 30-something. They've run, they're running from the Lord, but I know they got saved when they were younger, and I'm just worried about them. And well, that's, I think, the way God sees Israel. So we should pray for Israel. We want to see Israel come back to the Lord. We want to see them trust in Christ and be born again. We want to see them receive their Messiah and crown him as king instead of crowning him with thorns. But but it grieves us to see what modern Israel is doing in some ways. The pro-LGBTQ, the pushing the death shots, just the liberalism, the woke agenda. All of that is not of God. That's not pleasing to the Lord. But we still love Israel. We support Israel. We want to see them come back to the Lord. And we should also be able to constructively criticize decisions that Israel's government makes without being accused of being anti-Semitic.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Yeah, because I believe that once, like there's a lot of people who don't realize, like you look at the scriptures, you have the genealogy of Jesus in Matthew 1, and then in Luke's gospel as well. Three or four, what is that? Three or three or four genealogy for Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 45:26

Luke could be one, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Or Matthew one. Well, yeah. Well, Luke somewhere in the Luke two is the birth narrative. Yeah, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. So we have, I mean, the importance, people don't understand the importance of Israel. Like all nations through Abraham by faith, all nations will be will be blessed. That's right. It's like a lot of people just don't, they just think, what do we support in Israel? These people are, you know, they're just they don't know the the history. They don't know God's calling out Abraham and Abraham by faith, you know, and then Isaac and the seed through Isaac and Jacob. So anyway, I just feel like a lot of people are disturbed about why, you know, why Israel. Well, these are why. This is why we are, you know, we are blessed and have because every that's who God chose. I mean, the Hebrew language, there's so much more to it than what people are just seeing. 100%.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Yeah, it's through Israel that we have the scriptures. Right. Every biblical author, including Luke, by the way, in my view, was a Jew. So they gave us the record of scriptures. Paul tells us that in Romans. You know, the ultimate seed of Abraham is Jesus Christ, the Messiah and Savior of the world. So one thing I want to add just for clarity, because I can already see the emails in my mind coming in. You know, the fact is, what complicates this whole discussion about Zionism is there is a lot of misinformation, disinformation out there about Israel, right? So the whole genocide concept, look, nobody's been more upfront and transparent about my critique of Israel and some of the things they've done that were wrong, I believe, than me. But that doesn't mean that everything the mainstream media says about Israel is true. They're not out there like Hamas, indiscriminately raping, torturing, and killing innocent people right and left. Does some of that happen from time to time? Sure. It happens in America too. Soldiers sometimes go rogue and do bad things. But the scales are way out of balance, and the media is so anti-Semitic, they're trying to paint Israel as the bad guy, and you know, and even in some cases Hamas and Hezbollah is the good guy, if you can imagine. And I'm saying that's what I mean about nuance. I'm not all in saying that Israel can do no wrong, but I'm certainly not here to say that Israel is is akin to Hezbollah or Hamas. They've been attacked and tortured and so forth. But to your point, God's hand is on Israel. And if you go back through the annals of history, there were plenty of times when Israel was in disobedience. They were not following the Lord, they were aligning themselves with pagan nations and pagan deities, and God disciplined them for that. He brought in Egypt, he brought in Assyria, he brought in Babylon and Medo-Persia and Greece and so forth. And but he still loves them. He still has a plan for them. And so, like I've said many times, today modern Israel is more aligned with the Herods of the world back in the first century, or even Ahab before that, than they are the Josiahs and the Hezekiahs. But someday they'll align themselves with Jesus Christ. They'll look upon him whom they pierced, and they will cry out in belief, and they'll be ushered into the kingdom. And that's what we want to pray for. That's why we should support Israel.

SPEAKER_01 48:47

Yeah, and I believe also that he's he he will also, and according to scriptures, it looks this way that he uses them to draw in those nations for that great war. Oh, yeah, for that great war. So I mean, Israel's I mean, a lot of people say, well, they're this. Well, the Antichrist is gonna be, and Satan himself, Revelation 12, he's gonna go rogue on Israel. I mean, so they're gonna get whatever they're gonna get what they get, and all the nations will too in judgment when God pours out his wrath. But Jonah closes out with any thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

No. I know.

SPEAKER_01 49:33

Sorry. Well, I you know, just uh the end times. I don't know, I think it's important that we know. I I mean, John says, I, you know, in the Gospel of John that we are to see these things so that we know that we have life, and also we we can know what's coming, you know, we don't have to be deceived. Jesus said that don't let anybody deceive you. And so that's why I appreciate not by works ministries because it's not by works. And if it was by works, then then people could boast about their works, but it's it's by his goodness, his grace, and it's by faith that we can be saved. And anybody who puts their trust in Jesus for salvation can come come to salvation and be born again, not of not of human flesh, but be born of God. John says that in John 1, I believe. John three. Yep. John three, yeah. So anyway, you want to close this out with anything else?

SPEAKER_02 50:33

Listen, you guys are are such a blessing. Really have enjoyed getting to know you and and spending time with you today. And uh thanks for for the discussion. A lot of a lot of food for thought here. I hope folks will take what we've talked about and maybe do a little more research. The biggest takeaway though is make sure you know the Lord Jesus as your savior. I mean, this is time is urgent right now. There's just a lot going on. A lot could happen. You don't want to take, you know, you don't want to leave that to chance. You don't want to be left behind if the trumpet sounds today. So the Bible is very clear all who place their faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone can have eternal life. It's not complicated. It's not, you know, some big uh con you know contract you have to sign where you have to read the fine print. And it's just a simple childlike faith. Who are you trusting to forgive your sin and give you the gift of eternal life? If it's anything, anyone, any system other than the one person who took your place on the cross, Jesus Christ, then your faith is misplaced and you need to trust him today. So if folks want to find out more about us, then go to not by works.org. And if you want to find out more about the new book, go to fade to blackbook.com, fade to blackbook.com. But appreciate you guys very much.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Yep, and I'm Matt Haynes on Hainscast. Thanks for watching.